User talk:Carlos/Archive 10

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Archives: 01020304050607080910

Redirects and own contributions

Happy new year, Carlos! I think one problem with not keeping the redirect when moving pages is that it's possible to lose links to the old page. It doesn't matter if it's the composer page, or the lyricist page, since they are easy enough to check. However, if there is a link to something like a carol book, that does not seem to be transferred to the new page. Given that it's not that much extra work to delete the redirect page after checking for links, I've gone on doing that.

Happy new year, James!
In fact you can check links to a page even after it's deleted, that's why I suggested to move pages without keeping the old title, if you intend to delete it later. You're still supposed to click on the old title (now deleted) and check any pages that link to it in order to correct them manually (except those from automated listings).

Another point. After discussion with one of our contributors, I've (slightly reluctantly, since I think the disputed page is an arrangement, not an original composition) agreed to reinstate the deleted page. Before when this has been necessary, I've done it via the Recent Changes page but, because there has been so much site activity over the last few days, the relevant link is more that 500 items ago. The relevant deletion was either on the 30th or 29th December. Question: how do I access my own activity, rather than everyone's?
Jamesgibb (talk) 18:38, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

About last question, see your contributions page. Claude (talk) 11:59, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Claude, for adding the link, I'm still away from home and checking the Internet from time to time only. In this case, I think that the deletion log will be more useful for James: Special:Log/delete.
James, note that in both cases you can narrow down the search by specifying a year/month, title etc. —Carlos Email.gif 16:50, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
...and check the 'Hide minor edits' box I produce many of them ;-) Claude (talk) 17:06, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Navigation through archive pages

Hi, Carlos, Thanks for having tweaked my archive talk pages to navigate easily between them. I wish you the best for 2015. Claude (talk) 07:57, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Claude! May it be a good year for all of us! —Carlos Email.gif 19:12, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Latest contributions


two of my latest contributions have not shown up in the Most recent scores tablet on the welcome page. It concerns my Tantum ergo and my Tristis est anima mea. Could you fix that please?

Best regards, jenskklimek

Hi, Jens. Thank you for your contributions on CPDL. I saw that, after the last translation paragraph, two mandatory categories were missing (they were in the part to cut and paste from addwork form): especially the 'Sheet music' category. I've just corrected one of your contributions (Tristis) and I'm going to correct the second one. Glad to help you. [Edit: but I'm unable to see what is the problem for the second one (Tantum). Carlos?] Claude (talk) 16:09, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
Hello Jens! Claude was faster than me in correcting your Tristis est (thanks, Claude!); as he already explained, those two categories at the end of the page are required for a new edition to be listed on the Main page. In the case of your Tantum ergo, it was posted on Jan 17 but I only noticed that the cited categories were missing on Jan 29 (i.e., after the 10 days period had passed in which a work is displayed on the Main page). I just advanced the "posted date" to today so that your work will finally be displayed on the Lastest scores list, but after the 10 days period is over I suggest that we return the posting date to its original value. Regards, —Carlos Email.gif 20:00, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Tony Kline

Sorry Carlos. Hadn't seen your reply, even though the page was apparently on my watch list. (I've noticed this with other pages that I thought I was automatically watching recently, so perhaps I'm just watching too many pages an need to purge things.)

No problem, James, that's what I supposed that had happened. :)

I think I saw what i was doing as a mere temporary solution, while I was restoring some sense of order to the Petrarch pages, since I agree that he is not a lyricist. However, I think we do need to find some way of automatically listing the works of (significant) translators, if this is not too difficult. If that is not possible. then I agree that manual construction may be the only other way. I'll stop treating him as a lyricist from now on, but won't remove the ones I've done so far, since at least the bogus lyricist page will be useful if we (=I) have to resort to a manual solution (and also for purging the lyricist references on pages where the link is).
Jamesgibb (talk) 08:10, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm already thinking of a way to automate translator's listings, your feedback will be appreciated after I come up with a prototype. On a related subject, I've implemented a new template named {{Alias}} that is called from inside of {{Lyricist}}. It allows us to write e.g. {{Lyricist|Petrarch}} and still link to the correct lyricist page. Let me know if you remember other useful aliases to be added to the list. —Carlos Email.gif 19:01, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Just catching up after flying back from Italy, Carlos.

I'll have a think about other possible aliases. Of course, it sometimes applies to some composers as well, but, in a way, I think that's not much of a problem, unless the composer is very obscure, since the surname usually remains the same.
Jamesgibb (talk) 08:27, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks a lot!

Hi Carlos, thank you for your kind welcome and well met to you!

I am glad that my choral arrangements and my editions are available online.

I am going to upload others soon.

Best regards, Francesco.

Fraspi (talk) 10:33, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


Thanks, Carlos. That sounds a really useful addition, since it solves a problem that I was aware of, but had no idea how to solve. I won't, of course, remove the template - it needs to be there to catch future problems - but I will ensure that the missed items are correctly linked to the text page when I come across it.local

I haven't had any time to spend on CPDL work since we got back from Italy last week. Unfortunately, one of the local (non-musical) societies that I work for has had a bit of a crisis with a large event they are organizing at the beginning of March, so I've had to pick up the pieces. With luck, everything will be back under control by the middle of next week.
Jamesgibb (talk) 18:19, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

What's with all the Category manipulations and deletions?

Hi Carlos. I see that now you are mass deleting a whole bunch of (text) categories. What is going on? The way that things have been progressing lately, it is difficult to know what is going on, and I'd like to be kept in the loop with what you have in mind. It seems as if, more and more, things are done pretty much without informing other interested members of the user interaction and the maintenance and improvement groups that originally existed. In the future, could massive changes such as I'm seeing these days be discussed at the forums? Thanks in advance!   Chucktalk Giffen 05:34, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Chuck, sorry if you were caught by surprise. As you are one of the editors of {{LinkText}}, I supposed that you had been notified of the recent activity at its discussion page too, where my last changes to the template were explained. Basically, these changes eliminated the need for text categories, and the ones deleted by me yesterday were already empty. Edmund Gooch and Claude, who were the two editors most involved in the creation of these categories, had been informed by me, but I'll remember to also leave a note at the forums too, next time.
And since we're at it: I am planning to make a similar change to the {{Lyricist}} and {{LyricistSettingsList}} templates, in order to avoid the creation of lyricist categories (the ones found in category:Lyricist works categories. Those categories are currently only used by these two templates. Would you have any objection? Regards, —Carlos Email.gif 15:20, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Carlos. I understand now! It makes sense, and your workaround is good. Sorry to have bugged you about it! – Chucktalk Giffen 01:02, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Adoramus te, Christe (Orlando di Lasso)

Hi Carlos, Don't you think it's a little premature to remove the cleanup tag? We have a broken link to an unidentified piece and no dab for the 4-part settings or the third 3-parter. Roman numerals are a matter of taste, though unavoidable when dealing with the 1604 print. Richard Mix (talk) 05:57, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Richard. From my experience with disambiguation pages, they are supposed to be as simple and "clean" as possible; links to the works available on CPDL are usually enough. I'm not against adding a comprehensive list of all possible settings by a specific composer, but this is not its main purpose. Information about voicings, broken links etc. also don't belong there. That's why I can't see the need for marking disambiguation pages for clean-up (the cleanup tag was broken, by the way). If you added the tag as a reminder for yourself, then I suggest instead the creation of a "To-do" section on your editor page to keep track of such cases.
Regarding the Roman numerals, I agree with you that they are a matter of taste, but if I'm not mistaken, we've been using Arabic numerals in indices of Music publications. On disambiguation pages I favor the Arabic over the Roman, again, for its greater simplicity (thinking from the point of view of CPDL visitors), but if you prefer it the other way around I won't object. —Carlos Email.gif 16:10, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Talk Pages

Hi Carlos. Thanks for your note. Clearly an error on my part, so I'll be more careful in future.

On the question of leaving multiple redirects, partly the reason I remove them is my programming history. Many years ago when I was running overlaid Fortran vehicle-scheduling programs on 25K of core, getting rid of redundancies was essential, so I've tended to do that without thinking although, clearly, space is no longer a problem. Another reason why I've tended to remove the old page is that, if one does a search on the title, both pages will appear. This is not a problem if there are only a few pages with that title, but has unnecessary redundancies if there are more than 7 or 8. On the point you make about the original editor having difficulty finding their work if the title is uncapitalised, I don't think too much of a problem, since they can find it via the composer page or the text page (if that exists). The search box ignores capitalisation anyway. So, on the whole, I'd prefer to tidy, since it makes the search box more useful. I don't know whether things work differently on IMSLP as regards searches. On the whole, I've found that a less user-friendly site when I have used it.

On the changes you've made identifying works which refer to the text page but appear not to be in the manual list, that has proved really useful for completing the text pages. When I've come across pages with missing items, I've tidied them up, either by adding the missing items or by sorting out items where the works page has been renamed for some reason. I've only come across one issue, with a new edition of O vos omnes which was added yesterday. Since the O vos omnes text page is one with automatic, rather than manual, listing, the added version appears twice. I suppose we could remove the automatic listing and then I could create the manual listing, which I don't mind doing, provided there aren't too many such pages! What do you think?
Jamesgibb (talk) 11:39, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi James. I agree with you that redirects appearing on the search box are sometimes confusing. If I'm not mistaken, search settings can be changed in order to discard redirects (even though sometimes they are useful). IMSLP avoids this problem by using a different search engine based on Google's search engine. With regard to the broken links potentially created by deleted pages, I was referring to the situation when someone sends a link to a friend via email, or posts a CPDL work on Facebook, and so on. If that work is renamed soon after (as it often happens with new contributions), people clicking on these links will land on a CPDL page with an error ("This page was deleted on ... by ..."), and that's not good, in my view.
You've been doing a great work with text pages! I'm glad that {{TextAutoList}} proved itself to be useful for this task. It was added by mistake to O vos omnes, as it's not supposed to be used on the same page with {{TextPageList}}; I've just removed it. But if you decide to create a manual list, then please reinstate it. Thanks! —Carlos Email.gif 16:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Extra blank line in Text template

Hi Carlos. The reason for my removing the linebreak inside the Text template is illustrated by the following code (try it yourself by removing the pre environment and preview the result to see an unacceptable extra blank line):

Some text

Some text

two}}Other text

}}Other text

Do you see the formatting problem? As it stands, the extra blank line after the invocation of Text with a linebreak at the end of the text passed to the template is not acceptable behavior. If you want to modify the Text template so that anomaly doesn't happen, then go ahead. One other point, I have a problem with situations in which it would be nice to "escape" the poem environment, which cannot happen using the {{#tag:poem|{{{2}}}}} method, but it can be done if one uses <poem>{{{2}}}</poem> to process the text parameter poetically. – Chucktalk Giffen 02:36, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Chuck, you're right! It looks way better without the extra line; I'll remember to use this syntax in my future edits. I removed a line break from inside the Text template that could be causing this difference, but nothing changed in the output.
Regarding the other point you cite, if I understood it correctly, you suggest that we use the <poem> tags inside the template instead of {{#tag:poem}}, right? I see what you had in mind with this change (having the possibility of using </poem>...<poem> anywhere inside of a formatted text), but unfortunately it's not possible, poem tags don't work properly when inside a template. —Carlos Email.gif 03:59, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi again Carlos. Oh, that's too bad the </poem>...<poem> inside won't work. I wonder if the the <p>...</p> in the template is causing the linebreak problem, but haven't had time to check. Maybe a flag "nopoem" could be passed as a parameter to avoid using the poem environment altogether, for situations where more delicate formatting might be desired? Best wishes! – Chucktalk Giffen 05:33, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Chuck, for these more delicate situations, why not use the "old" syntax? (e.g. {{Text|Latin}} and text below it formatted as you like it.) Creating a nopoem parameter is possible, but wouldn't we be complicating unnecessarily a template that was originally so simple? —Carlos Email.gif 16:16, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi, both. It's not clear for me. Did you choose both the same option? A break before the two curly brackets, or not? Claude (talk) 10:48, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi Claude, I will follow Chuck's suggestion illustrated in the first of his four examples above. But I suggest that we continue keeping a blank line between templates (in the case of multiple translations). —Carlos Email.gif 16:16, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi Claude (and Carlos). The following
Let all the people sing,
for soon it will be Spring.}}Anonymous.
produces (after the flag and "English text" header):

Let all the people sing,
for soon it will be Spring.


Let all the people sing,
for soon it will be Spring.
produces an extra blank line:

Let all the people sing,
for soon it will be Spring.


The extra blank line spoils formatting, especially inside tables, but also for any following material (such as including the poetic source after the Text template). – Chucktalk Giffen 16:38, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Archivo repetido cuando subo una nueva versión

Hola Carlos, ¿podrías ayudarme?

He intentado subir (upload) una nueva y mejor versión de este archivo "Victoria-Magnificat_primi_toni_all.pdf", pero cuando quiero ver el archivo nuevo, aparece el antiguo (appears the old file). Este procedimiento lo he repetido dos veces y sigo viendo el archivo anterior, nunca el nuevo. También lo he intentado subiéndolo como un archivo nuevo, pero me avisa de que el archivo está repetido (duplicated file). Además, el archivo antiguo está asociado a esta página: "" , aunque ha sido borrada por otro contributor (has been erased by another contributor) y no hay contenidos, aunque el link funciona y el link a mi archivo también.

Me gustaría poder hacer los siguiente (I'd like to try the following issues):

  • borrar el archivo antiguo (erase the old file)
  • subir el archivo nuevo y visualizarlo (upload the new file and see it)

muito obrigado --Bemolita 15:41, 31 March 2015‎

Gracias Carlos!

Tenías razón. Era una cuestión de caché del navegador y ya puedo ver el archivo nuevo. Además he podido añadir un archivo midi. Ya sólo me quedan por solucionar dos cuestiones:

  • borrar los archivos antiguos

porque los archivos ya pueden verse en el link correcto del Magnificat primi toni (all)

muito obrigado! --Bemolita 21:35, 1 April 2015‎

Lyricist template

Carlos, would it be worth adding "|cols=2" to the LyricistSettingslist template, so that the list is automatically shown in two columns? That makes better use of the screen when there is a long list. I've been making some changes by hand, but it struck me that it might be sensible to have it done automatically, whenever a new lyricist page is set up.
Jamesgibb (talk) 12:32, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Sure James, no problem! I was also considering to make two columns the default display for this template. Best, —Carlos Email.gif 14:07, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
James, I came up with a compromise: if there are more than 10 results, the template automatically shifts to two columns. Do you think that 10 is a good number, or do you prefer a smaller one? —Carlos Email.gif 15:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Changes noticed when adding works

Carlos, I been adding quite a few works from Schutz's Cantiones Sacrae recently and have noticed a couple of oddities.
1. When adding a new work, the files are not longer automatically added to the listing on the Composer page. I've been adding them manually, but perhaps a decision has been taken not to include them on the composer page, since they are obviously available on the works page itself.
2. When adding a new edition, the Editions template is no longer automatically added against the listing. Again, I've been adding it manually.

This may be a issue specific to the Schutz composer page, or something more general.

By the way, thanks for reminding me about indenting on the Talk pages. I agree that it makes conversations easier to follow.

Jamesgibb (talk) 14:13, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi James, (1.) there's an ongoing discussion on the forums about adopting Max's automation solution, and it involves the removal of future works links from composer pages (something which I enthusiastically agree with), as well as (2.) edition counts (at least, until we have a way of displaying this info automatically).
Best, —Carlos Email.gif 20:32, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I now, somewhat belatedly, grasp the point! I've removed the file links that I've added to the Schutz page and I'll go on adding the edition template by hand where necessary. I think my skill level won't add anything to the discussion, but I need to get a bit more disciplined about checking the discussion pages regularly.Jamesgibb (talk) 09:26, 11 April 2015 (UTC)


Bon dia, Carlos! In the 1st week of April I put on CPDL a setting for a Welsh Hymn "Llef (O Jesu Mawr)". You kindly edited the entry. But when I search, it comes up under 'Subjects written in Welsh' and under 'Organ accompaniment' but not under 'Hymn tunes' or 'Hymn settings'. Can you help / advise? PS We know Portugal well - lived near Lisbon 1974-6 (during the Revolution!) and in Coimbra 1987-8. —Roddywalters 11:34, 12 April 2015‎

Bom dia, Carlos! Muito obrigado pela sua ajuda. I can now find my setting of the Welsh hymn tune 'Llef (O Jesu Mawr)'under the search term 'Hymn'. Is it possible also to contrive to find it under the search term 'Hymn Setting'?? The reason for my request is that hymn-singing is a strong Welsh tradition, stemming from the non-conformist churches that used to abound in every village & town throughout Wales and I anticipate that there are Welsh emigrant communities living across the world who will be interested in singing it - perhaps I have not made it clear that typically it is going to be sung by congregation rather than choir - the SATB harmonies are all straightforward being more or less as originally written by Gutyn Arfon; it is the organ intro and accompaniment that provides the 'setting'. —Roddywalters 09:11, 14 April 2015

Thanks from Alistair Kirk

Thanks for tidying up after my first attempt at uploading! I've got a better idea what's required now. --AlistairKirk 17:47, 29 April 2015‎

[Edited to add: except I just realised I put this reply in the wrong place! Oh well... sorry!] --AlistairKirk 17:49, 29 April 2015‎

That's fine! You may reply here or on your own talk page; it's just easier to understand a longer thread when everything is on a single place. ;)
Just remember to add four tildes ~~~~ at the end of your messages. They are converted into a standard signature. Best, —Carlos Email.gif 18:11, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Confusion confounded

Carlos, thanks for your help. It's taking a while to sort out, but this is just the WIKI learning curve!

There's an incorrect attribution on my USER CONTRIBUTIONS page. Dated 30 Nov., 2006, there are three .pdf files, and a Finale file, of Bach's Nun komm chorale. These are not mine--Joachim Kelecom edited and uploaded them.

Similarly, I'm credited with Certon's Mon pere my veult, posted on 23 February, 2011. This also is by Joachim Kelecom.

Apart from these, my USER CONTRIBUTION page shows 11 files marked CURRENT. One of these, Schutz' O Herr hilf, doesn't appear in the list of my choral works at David Cameron (I had forgotten posting it, long ago!)

Somehow, I'd like to get a comprehensive picture the connects my biography, and everything that I've posted. I know that my own inadvertence has caused this confusion, but I'm not sure where to start to sort it out. Any further help would be much appreciated.

David 17:37, 4 May 2015

Hi David! The wiki syntax is a bit difficult to manage at first, but things get much easier with time.
  • With respect to the Nun komm files, what made you think they are the work of Joachim Kelecom? I couldn't find any edition with this title by him. I downloaded two of the pdfs and inside them your name does appear as the author. Since it was uploaded a really long time ago, it's understandable if you just forgot about them (I probably would!).
  • In the case of Mon père my veult (Pierre Certon), you just contributed the English translation, not an edition.
  • For O Herr hilf, we already have a page here on CPDL, but it's the 1636 edition (Kleine geistliche Konzerte I, Op.8) while yours is from the 1650 edition. Can they both be on the same page or are there substantial differences between them?
Regards, —Carlos Email.gif 22:08, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


Thanks, Carlos. I must have clicked inaccurately to involve Joachim Kelecom. I see no particular value in the Nun komm version; best to let it lie and decay.

I have found a part of the source of confusion in my list of works: I have two presences, one as "Charles David Cameron" (my full name) and one as "David Cameron" (my professional, and day-to-day name). These are separately located at: (Begins with submissions of 24 April, 2015) (Begins in 2005, has some recent submissions)

How can I reconcile these?

Regarding Schutz’ "O Herr hilf", you wrote 'Can they both be on the same page or are there substantial differences between them?'

There is a significant difference. The later edition (SWV 402) is scored for string trio as well as the vocal trio and continuo, with an introduction and short interludes not in SWV 297. I transcribed it from a source now lost to me, probably in a university library many miles away. (Parrish and Ohl had a version in their “Masterpieces of Music before 1750”).

Nevertheless they are different versions of the same work. So probably they should be on the same page, with adequate informational notes. I will prepare and add string parts to supplement the score, if it finds an active place.

Your advice would be greatly valued!


And I forgot to sign David Cameron (talk) 23:43, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi again, David! I'm not sure I understand what you mean by reconciling your IMSLP and CPDL accounts; do you want both user pages under the same name? Or are you talking about having your contributions on one site having an equivalent on the other, so that both sites will be hosting the same content?
Regarding "O Herr hilf", if this work has a SWV index of its own, it's better to create a new page for it, with a link to the other version. I'll take care of it for you.
Best, —Carlos Email.gif 18:54, 5 May 2015 (UTC)


Hi Carlos: I wasn't wrong heading this "confusion co(n)founded"--I now have a note to READ IT OVER BEFORE POSTING! I had managed to confuse the IMSLP and CPDL pages--they don't need reconciliation.

There are still several things that defeat me, however. My CPDL page is missing links to several arrangements and one original piece:

  • Arrangement of Arthur Henry Brown’s “When Christ was born of Mary free” Appears to lack page although links work, both from Brown’s page and from mine.
  • Edition of James Kent’s “Thine, O Lord, is the greatness” CPDL #04552: Finale 2001 Present on Kent’s page, not on mine.
  • Edition of Schütz’ “O Herr hilf” File:Schutz_O_Herr_hilf.pdf (for which you kindly set up a page)
  • Edition of Monteverdi Magnificat secondo, ~a 4 (Posted 2015-05-02) CPDL #35279: [ ] [ Finale 2014]
  • Edition of Mendelssohn “How lovely are the messengers” How lovely are the messengers (Felix Mendelssohn)

Cameron “Your light shall shine” shows in “My Contributions” as:

  • 20:51, 2 May 2015 (diff | hist) . . (+30)‎ . . N File:Your light shall shine in darkness.pdf ‎ (Full anthem for SATB and organ)

Obviously I'm missing the technique for creating links for materials already posted on CPDL (I think I'm OK with new ones). Sorry to be such a klutz--and thanks very much for your advice or assistance. David Cameron (talk) 19:51, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

And a related question: how do I add instrumental parts to an existing edition (like the O Herr hilf you kindly set up)? David Cameron (talk) 21:09, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi David, sorry for the delayed reply, was away for a couple of days. Replying to your last question first: to add new files to an edition that's already online, just use the Upload file option found on the left menu of every page. After the file is uploaded, use the following syntax inside the works page (e.g. O Herr, hilf) to add a link to the file(s) uploaded:
[{{filepath:Your_filename.pdf}} {{pdf}}]
Now regarding the missing links you reported: they are treated differently, depending on whether you are the composer, arranger or editor:
  • Compositions go on the composer page;
  • Arrangements go on the composer page and, if the arranger has a page of his/her own on CPDL, on their page too;
  • Editions by you of another composer's work go on the composer page only; they are also listed in the category David Cameron editions. A link to this category is available in your editor page, but you may add links to your editions manually on that page if you prefer. Please see the user pages of Robert Nottingham and Philip Legge for examples on how to do it. You don't need to create a complex table for that, a simple list will work as well.
The link for “When Christ was born of Mary free” was broken at Arthur Henry Brown's page; thanks for spotting it, it's now correct.
Your composition Your light shall shine in darkness (David Cameron) was properly submitted; a last step was missing, which was to create the works page with the code you received via email. I've done that for you. When submitting new editions, it's preferable to use the new automated system; a link to it ("Add new edition") can be found on top of every composer page (including yours). It will do most of the work for you.
Best regards, —Carlos Email.gif 17:00, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


Again thanks, Carlos--this is very clear, except for one item. You refer to the "Upload File option found on the left menu of every page". I must be looking in the wrong place--on the left of each page, below the CPDL logo and a note about free choral music, I show this:

Main page
Music scores
Composer pages
Texts and translations
New pages
Recent changes
Random page
Add scores to CPDL
CPDL Contributors
CPDL Administrators
CPDL Forums
Multi-category search
Multi-site search

Where should I be looking for "Upload File"? David Cameron (talk) 15:53, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh, you're right, this option is indeed somewhat hidden: below Help, you'll see a Donation banner, and then a "Tools" menu. Click on it to see other options, including the one for uploading files. Best, —Carlos Email.gif 19:17, 13 May 2015 (UTC)


Hi Carlos, You replaced 'Editor' by 'Contributor' in many pages but Editor is one template, Contributor is another, isn't it? I even encountered edtype=Arranger! You omit to process "edtype=Contributor" when it was followed by something else before "}}" (look at CCARH to see what I mean). And you didn't change template documentation that stated that edtype=Contributor should be a parameter at the end of the template. Claude (talk) 08:10, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Claude, contributors and editors are quite different things! By using different templates we can track these isolate cases more easily. And sincerely, I don't see the point of changing the position of "|edtype=Contributor" inside of a template. Named parameters (as this one) can be placed anywhere, it doesn't affect the template's functionality at all. Please don't take offense, but I see some of these cosmetic changes as such a waste of time and energy, especially if we consider that it could have been done with a text replace. But again, it's you time, you decide how to spend it. ;)
Regarding templates documentation, they do need some improvement... I'll see what I can do. Regards, —Carlos Email.gif 15:40, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
As you know perhaps, Max gives me a dump extraction of the database each three months, for statistics. Regarding Edition date, I get it as the string after "Editor" and his name. Now, it will be after "Editor" and his name, or "Contributor" and his name, or "Arranger" and his name, or... And yes it's my time, that's why I regret your changes ;-) Claude (talk) 16:07, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
Claude, I see your point. Your statistics are highly valued! But consider that now that the |edtype= parameter is gone, your work will be much easier: if the template used is {{Editor}}, we know it was edited by that person; if the template used is {{Contributor}}, we can be quite sure that it's a scanned copy from a printed edition, so it can be categorized differently in your statistics. By the way, I just removed the two cases of |edtype=Arranger and added an {{Arranger}} template, because it categorizes the work as a composition by the arranger, which template Editor doesn't. Best, —Carlos Email.gif 16:16, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Deep links

Thanks for the message. A mistake born of ignorance, unfortunately. Perhaps a note warning new users of this etiquette could be included. We will go back and emend all our CPDL "deep links" to conform.


Thanks for the attention to Rorate! Fwiw though, sheweth is not a typo but the Book of Common Prayer's spelling. Richard Mix (talk) 03:07, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Oops, sorry! I had never seen that spelling and, to check, I made a search for the whole phrase "and the firmament sheweth his handiwork"; as I expected, Google automatically corrected it to "showeth". I should have been more careful, though. Thanks, —Carlos Email.gif 03:56, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Barbireau 'Pfoben swancz'

Hello Carlos,

thanks for giving me the source of this masterpiece by Jacques Barbireau.

I hope I will soon have the result .

It will be very interesting to compare the printversion and my regal interpretation.

THanks again


--Metzner (talk) 21:34, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia links added

Hi Carlos,

As agreed, I have added the Wikipedia links to the ChoralWiki pages on Anton Bruckner's Choral works. I have also improved the lay-out of the German text of Bruckner's Trösterin Musik, WAB 88.

Best regards, --Meneerke bloem (talk) 09:11, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

PS: How can I add a picture to my User page?

Thank you. I have done it. --Meneerke bloem (talk) 21:20, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello, welcome to CPDL! Thanks for creating a page for Hermann Goetz. In order to publish your edition of Er ist's, we need to know the editor's real name. Thank you! —Carlos Email.gif 04:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Carlos. The editor's real name is myself, Tim Thomas. I thought I put that on the upload form but maybe not. Thanks again.

Tim Thomas (IowaGrad)

Piedmontese or Italian? Both!

Hi Carlos, thank you for modifying the language label of "Gesù bambin l'è nato in tanta povertà".

You supposed that the text was in Piedmontese. In fact it is Italian with some Piedmontese influences (e.g. "setàa" for "seduta", "chinàa" for "chinata", etc.).

However, "Piedmontese" suits me well.

Fraspi (talk) 09:25, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Francesco, do you think it would sound more accurate if we added "Piedmontese and Italian" instead of just Piedmontese? That can be done by changing the language template to {{Language|2|Italian|Piedmontese}}. Regards, —Carlos Email.gif 15:44, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

New works added

Hi Carlos,

Could you please help me with this :

1) Two new works added on September 20 and 21 : Gumpelzhaimer "Vom Himmel hoch" and Giovanni Croce "Gaudete et exultate" with pdf and midi files. Previously when doing this, I received confirmation from CPDL with instructions for adding the works on the composer pages, but in these last cases, I did not receive confirmation... how can I add them ? Or shall I try to add the works without waiting for confirmation ?

2) I have a pdf and midi files to add for a new composer "Jos Klug - In dulci jubilo" : the page does not exist and I am not really confident to do it myself... can you help ?

Thank you, Helene 07:49, 21 September 2015‎

Hi Helene
1) You uploaded the files correctly, now you just need to submit them using the new submission process. The steps for doing it are: first go to the composer's page and verify if an entry for that composition already exists. In the case of Gumpelzhaimer, there is already a page for "Vom Himmel hoch", so you have to open that page and locate at its top a tab written "Add new work". Click on it and fill out the form that will open, informing the name of the pdf/audio files you've uploaded. Since you have several audio files, inform just the filename of the Soprano midi file. The other midi files will have to be added manually, after you submit the form, ok? For Giovanni Croce, there isn't yet a page for "Gaudete et exultate", so you'll use the "Add new work" tab located at the top of the composer page instead. Hope the explanation is clear enough. :)
2) "Jos. Klug" is in fact w:de:Joseph Klug. He published a harmonization of w:In dulci jubilo in his Geistliche Lieder (1533), but he was not the harmonizer, as it seems. If you know the name of the person who made this harmonization, then use it, otherwise I suggest you add your edition to In dulci jubilo (Traditional) (use the "Add new work" tab, again).
  • Richard Mix identified the author of the harmonization: it was Bach, after all. —Carlos (talk) Email.gif 05:22, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
If you have more doubts, let me know by replying here on this talk page. Kind regards, —Carlos (talk) Email.gif 17:05, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

6 Notturni (Nocturnos, Kanzonetten) (Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart)

Hi Carlos, Though Song cycles is a solution, I wonder whether this is a Larger works or perhaps better a Music publications. In any case I've rewritten a bit, but wonder how to merge CPDL #29722. Shall we put it on the main page leaving links to subpages, merge all editions to one page, ask Jan to split the pdf and get new edition numbers for the sub pages, or…? Cheers, Richard Mix (talk) 00:09, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Richard. Thanks for adding a clarification on the authorship. I agree with you that maybe "Music publication" is a better description for this compilation.
On merging: given the choices, I think that splitting the pdf would be the most difficult to implement. I'd follow your first suggestion (put it on the main page) or else, just add a link to 3 nokturna and between it and the three other related pages (KV 346, 438, 439). —Carlos (talk) Email.gif 00:50, 30 September 2015 (UTC)


I submitted Parsley's Lamentations last year (under K Hawks) and have submitted Morton's Le Souvenir now; on my user page (thanks!), how do I get Parsley on to my list? Katiehawks (talk) 05:27, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Katie. At this time, Carlos should be sleeping ;-) I just added your full first name instead of capital K on the page and, it's magic. Claude (talk) 05:56, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
Hi Claude, thanks for the corrections! :D —Carlos (talk) Email.gif 14:01, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

About the composer Gian Paolo Dal Dosso

Hi Carlos, about page for the composer Gianpaolo Dal Dosso, I'm the composer myself and I've uploaded several my works. I autorize the publication of my work. Best regards. Gian Paolo.

How to use different flags?

Hi, Carlos. I've seen you've raised the Armenian flag recently. Thanks. Some times ago, I wanted to implement the Corsican one. Uploaded it to CPDL and thought it would be used on Diu vi salvi Regina (Angelina Figus) but to no avail. The Italian flag remains instead. Can you help? Regards. Claude (talk) 12:49, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Claude, usually just uploading a file with the language name and a PNG extension is enough. But for subnational languages (as is the case with Corsican), we usually go with the country's flag (which, by the way, should be France in this case, not Italy! my fault...) This replacement is done inside template Flag. I removed Corsican from it; the flag you uploaded should appear now. Regards, —Carlos (talk) Email.gif 13:09, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Cleanup needed

Dear Carlos,

I uploaded a new score (Nunc Dimittis)but there's a message saying 'Cleanup needed', I don't know why. Could you please help?

Roger ----

Hi, Roger, thanks for your contributions to CPDL. The reason to clean up is written under the 'CleanUp' line : "File not linked (not uploaded?)". Because, if one clicks on your score icon, nothing will happen. Nobody will ever download and read your score. In my opinion, it's just because you never sent your score (uploaded it) to CPDL. Am I wrong? Also, if you want to let us know who wrote your lines just above, type four times in a row the tilde (~) and your user name will appear with date and time. Claude (talk) 10:39, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Dear Claude,
I've checked, and the file is already uploaded (Nunc - Teichmann.pdf).
RogerTeichmann (talk) 13:45, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Ah, Ok. Then no doubt that Carlos should solve the problem. Claude (talk) 16:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Roger,

I arrived late to the discussion, but fortunately Richard Mix found the problem and fixed it for you. My thanks to him and to Claude. —Carlos (talk) Email.gif 03:20, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Add new edition

Hi Carlos,

I wasn't sure exactly where to ask and put this on Template talk:Recent additions already: when there is already a workpage, it would be preferable that the "add edition" tab shouldn't trigger the addition of the template to the composer page. Is there a practical way to intervene somewhere? Richard Mix (talk) 01:08, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Richard, I left a reply at the template's talk page. Regards, —Carlos (talk) Email.gif 03:35, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


Dear Carlos,

I've uploaded a piece, Songs of Narnia, with words by CS Lewis, who died in 1963. It's occurred to me that in the UK, copyright persists for 70 years after the author's death: should there be some sort of warning for people to read before they download, in case they are residents of countries with UK-style copyright laws? (Or should I simply not have uploaded it???)

Roger Teichmann (talk) 12:16, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Hello Roger. Your question is pertinent; we have a similar {{CopyrightWarning}} for works in the public domain in the U.S., but we lack one for this specific situation. As I understand it, the use of small quotes taken from a larger work present no problem under the U.S. law (where CPDL is located). I could find the same quotes you used in your composition on other sites such as WikiNarnia and WikiQuote. I don't know how these quotes are treated under the UK law (and other countries with similar legislation), though. I'll ask the opinion of other admins who are more knowledgeable on this, ok? Kind regards, —Carlos (talk) Email.gif 13:17, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
In my opinion, no problem with respect to the US "fair use" definition, which is quite broad. The UK "fair dealing" is stricter, however the intent of illustrating the "sort of Christian chronology implicit in Narnia - beginning with prophecy, moving through temptation and sin, and ending with the hope of spring and renewal" makes the UK fair dealing provisions for criticism and review fully applicable, IMO. Critical factors for determining both "fair use" in US and "fair dealing" in UK are concerned with possible damage for the market of the original work, and with the amount of work used. In this case, the market of the original work may even increase because new potential readers may want to look into the "sort of Christian chronology implicit in Narnia", and the amount of work used seems absolutely consistent with the purpose of illustrating the above concept. Max. a.k.a. Choralia (talk) 12:11, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Carlos & Max - and thank someone for writing out the words of this and of other pieces I've uploaded! Roger Teichmann (talk) 12:21, 12 December 2015 (UTC)


Dear Carlos, How do I upload MIDI or MP3 files of pieces I've already uploaded scores of? Roger Teichmann (talk) 14:21, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Roger, please follow these simple steps:
  1. Upload each file using the "Upload file" link at the left menu;
  2. Go to the works page and edit it to include the new link(s). Let's say you have uploaded Jubilate - Teichmann.mid and Jubilate - Teichmann.mp3. You'll need to edit Jubilate Deo and include the following code just after the pdf file:
    [{{filepath:Jubilate - Teichmann.mid}} {{mid}}] [{{filepath:Jubilate - Teichmann.mp3}} {{mp3}}]
  3. Preview the results and, if everything is OK, save the page.
That's it, basically! Regards, —Carlos (talk) Email.gif 03:55, 13 December 2015 (UTC)