User talk:Kkroon

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"Substituted" templates

I don't get it ... can someone explain to me how they're supposed to work? Kkroon 15:47, 3 March 2008 (PST)

Edit to Pietro Yon

Hi Kurtis. Thanks for adding the birth and deaths dates on Pietro Yon. I've just restored the categories that you deleted when you did that as they are used in the composer anniversaries system and for other uses. I think I understand why you deleted them - if you edit on Wikipedia, that's the process - if the page is categorised as "unknown" something then you add the info and remove the category to show that it's no longer unknown. Also, when I came to leave this message, I noticed that your user page isn't titled with your full name so I moved it, retaining the redirects and I corrected the links on Vide Domine, ZWV 179 (Jan Dismas Zelenka). I also corrected the links to the Creative Commons site that wasn't formatted correctly. Regards --Bobnotts talk 00:01, 15 January 2008 (PST)

Genre categories and Christmas

I changed the genre category for Ich steh... (Bach) from Category:Uknown_genre to Category:Carols - which is how this work should be classified. It might help for you to check the ChoralWiki:Music Subcategories page to see what relevant categories already exist. I hope this helps, because your efforts are much appreciated.

I've indented all my comments like this. As for the Music Subcategories page, I didn't know it existed. Now that I do, I'll actually refer to it.

As for the new Christmas category you've created, we have been reluctant in the past to launch a Category:Christmas_music [for] several reasons: (1) there is the question as to whether Advent and Epiphany music should be included (such works often appear on "Christmas concerts" or are sung in church services at or near Christmas;

I've always been fussy about proper categorization—so I would classify music specific to Advent as Advent music, and so on. Of course, just because pieces are classified as Advent or Epiphany won't stop choruses from performing them in "Christmas" concert … which are technically "Advent" concerts (because they usually precede Christmas).

(cont'd) (2) there is the question of whether we should also similarly categorise such seasonal music as Easter music, Lenten music, Ascension Music, Pentecost music (you get the idea);

If it's proper for a specific liturgical celebration, I think we should classify it as such. I don't celebrate organized holidays per se, but I think we should provide that information for those who do … especially if they need "liturgically appropriate" music.

(3) the sheer quantity of such Christmas music is enormous, and hence it has been felt that launching such a category for Christmas (and/or categories for other seasonal music) should only be attempted when we can expect a commitment of (probably several) volunteers to devote concentrated energy to the arduous task fleshing out such a category as completely as possible.

Aye … there's the rub. Define the phrase "devote concentrated energy". It probably involves all that free time that I don't have …

In the meantime the Category:Carols captures most of what people are looking for, and indeed your new Category:Christmas only has two entries which are also correctly categorised as Carols.

Agreed, though I still think it's a worthy cause.

OF COURSE, if you are intending to spend a LOT of time categorizing Christmas music ...

I think that another season (with less music) would be a better "proof-of-concept". I'd hate to have to eat the whole Christmas elephant by myself. Now … if no one's under any time pressure—"I need repertoire for Advent (not Christmas or Epiphany), and I need it yesterday"—hey, I'll step up to the plate (or is that "podium"?)

Cheers! ChuckGiffen 07:51, 30 October 2006 (PST)

Thank you, and I apologize if I stepped on anyone's toes. Kkroon 2006-10-30T22:45-08:00

Verified Editions

That sounds good Kkroon. What is this feature on your spreadsheet program - concaterate? - what does it mean and what does it do? Bobnotts 04:41, 4 October 2006 (PDT)

Kurtis replies: CONCATENATE takes all its parameters and chains them together in the order given. The word comes from (Vulgar?) Latin concatenare: con "together" + catena "chain" + verbal ending. So, "to chain together".

Here's how I use it: in my spreadsheet program, I list page titles in column A, and CPDL IDs in column B. In column C, I type:


For a more concrete example, say cell A2 contains the text "Margot labourez les vignes (Jacob Arcadelt)", and cell B2 contains "687". The concatenate function strings everything together with the pertinent wiki markup ([[ | ]]), and writes [[Margot labourez les vignes (Jacob Arcadelt)|687]]<br> in cell C2. I copy this from my spreadsheet and paste it into the page I'm editing, and the Wiki does the rest.

I don't actually retype the function each time: instead, I use my spreadsheet's fill function (Edit > Fill ... > Down).

I hope this explanation helps ... and I can send you my spreadsheet if you want.

Kkroon, 2006-10-21

Oh and by the way, at least some of the editions that you said you couldn't find are on CPDL. Try typing #602 into the search box. Bobnotts 05:12, 4 October 2006 (PDT)

I didn't say that this method was flawless. I should have said "it's better than stabbing blindly in the dark". Kkroon 21 October

Requests discussion, FYI

  • Posted by: Vaarky 17:14, 22 September 2008 (PDT)

Template_talk:Request has some discussion about changes to the Request templates, just FYI. Given the great work you've done on the Requests, I thought I'd point you there in case you wanted to post any input.

Pipelare request for Ave Maria, Virgo Serena

  • Posted by: Vaarky 15:14, 24 September 2008 (PDT)

We're trying to unravel why this request has been pending for a really long time. I can't tell if you made the initial request (this is what I'm guessing), or changed it to Pending at some point later. Are you able to shed any light? Tx.

Reply by: Kkroon 15:21, 24 September 2008 (PDT)


I have the sheet music: I was going to give a go at transcribing it, to share with everyone ... then I got busy, and I never got back to it. It should be reverted to Requested (until I find the time to work on it).

Reply by: Vaarky 17:57, 24 September 2008 (PDT)


Out of curiosity, what voiceparts is it for? The composer's Memorare or whatever it's called is spectacular! I might take on transcribing it myself it it's something I can use with my group of singers.

Reply by: Kkroon 06:13, 11 October 2008 (PDT)


It was originally for five voice parts (SSATB), with a couple sections in duo. Unfortunately, the only surviving original source (Petrucci, 1508) lacks the Altus part. R. Cross reconstructed one for the Opera Omnia edition (CMM 34) he edited, which obviously isn't in the public domain.

Reply by: Vaarky 05:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


Alas, I do not have the skill to create the missing alto part.

Reply by: Chucktalk Giffen 11:45, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


Why not publish the score without the missing alto part (perhaps supplying blank alto staves)? Such an endeavor is still a valuable contribution to the public domain choral music community. The fact that a part is missing just might encourage others to give a try at reconstructing the missing part. Indeed, I'd like to see the score and see if perhaps I might take a stab at it.

Reply by: Vaarky 19:42, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


Sounds good. I'm willing to take a stab at it. Do you have a photocopy of the public domain score you can email (info in on my user page)? Charles doesn't even need to wait for me to do an edition if you have a copy of a public domain score you can send him as well--these two efforts can proceed in parallel.

While you're at it, I'd be inclined to have a go at it, too. Perhaps there's a little contest in there somewhere :)) Cordially, joachim 07:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
A go at deriving the missing alto or keying in the public domain existing voice parts? --Vaarky 17:27, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't know what stage Kurtis' score is in. If a public domain score needs to be remade, I'd be happy to do so, leaving a blank stave for our attempts at filling in the alto. Keep in mind I use Finale 2008, so the resulting file might not be backwards compatible with earlier versions (not sure about saving options and the like). Cordially, joachim 09:09, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I use MUP, so my resulting file would be even less useful to people than Finale 2008. --Vaarky 19:28, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
If Kurtis is still interested in having the piece made available, I'm willing to make the score. Anybody interested in having a go at writing an alto part, can access the file through the free Notepad program if they want. Three 'contestants' so far: you, me and Chuck? joachim 06:47, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm not a contestant for writing the alto part--lack the expertise. Only was offering to key in the other parts (which are in the public domain) via MUP. I leave the death match over who will re-invent the missing alto part to you folks with the greater expertise. I'll bring the popcorn. --Vaarky 07:22, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Hi Kkroon. Thanks for providing edit summaries for your edits. Just to let you know, it's not necessary to sign your edits in the edit summary and if you try to by typing four tildes (~~~~), it doesn't translate to your username and date stamp in the page history or on the recent changes. Your username and a date stamp are already recorded by the wiki. Regards --Bobnotts talk 15:47, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Pipelare's Virgo serena

Hi Kurtis. As you may have gathered from the above, Chuck and I fancy having a go at creating an alto part for Pipelare's Ave Maria... Is there any way we could get hold of your score? It need not be typeset or anything, I'm willing to do that if you can mail me a scan. Cordially, joachim 09:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Kurtis. The same holds for me, and I can typeset the score in Finale 2005, which I still have (and use) even though I have Finale 2006 - 2009 (still have to install the last one!). -- Chucktalk Giffen 13:11, 22 October 2008 (UTC)